22:58:01 [Brigit] Hello
23:01:28 [Ares] Hi Shin, anything questions, observations, etc? Prof. B. should be here shortly.
23:01:56 [shin] oh i had one about supplication and xenia
23:02:05 [shin] professor said they were different
23:02:14 [shin] i thought that my gsi said that they were almost alike
23:02:17 [Ares] OK, shoot.
23:02:26 [shin] i mean xenia kind of like hospitality i guess
23:02:49 [shin] but i don' tknow i got confused with how you show supplication and ask for help
23:02:55 [shin] and they're suppose to help you?
23:03:08 [shin] maybe i'm getting the wrong i dea
23:03:32 [Ares] Yes, they are definitely different. Xenia IS hospitality. It is an institution
23:04:34 [shin] so are they suppose to be related at all?
23:04:40 [Ares] which covers the responsibilities of strangers toward one another.
23:05:20 [Ares] Supplication is not necessarily something which only strangers
23:06:10 [Ares] engage in. E.G. in the Iliad (if you're reading it), Thetis knows Zeus but still supplicates him.
23:06:52 [Kleonai1] Ares, who are you?
23:07:19 [Ares] Matthew Gonzales
23:07:50 [Kleonai1] Thanks Matt! I can't refer to you as Ares all evening!
23:07:52 [pegasus] hello
23:08:20 [Kleonai1] Hi pegasus, great name!
23:08:28 [pegasus] thanks ^_^
23:08:55 [delldude] wattup fools
23:09:25 [Kleonai1] So what shall we all talk about?
23:09:26 [AnthonyB] Good evening everyone - sorry to be running late!
23:09:37 [Ares] Supplication suggests a much more abject position on the point of the petitioner, whereas xenia is expected, and to some extent there is the appearance of equality.
23:09:44 [Kleonai1] Any ideas on the questions thrown out at the end of last class?
23:09:51 [delldude] can someone give a summary of where we should be in the class
23:10:25 [Ares] Jeannie, you wanna take that?
23:10:34 [tien] I think we're wrapping up on the Odyssey and moving on to heroes
23:10:48 [Kleonai1] Finishing reading the Odyssey, reading the Agamemnon
23:10:58 [AnthonyB] Matthew? Jeannie? Rebecca? 'Where should we be in the class?....'
23:11:31 [delldude] what is agamemnon
23:11:33 [Kleonai1] Figuring out "why pigs"?
23:11:34 [delldude] is that a novel
23:11:55 [Kleonai1] The Agamemnon is the first play in the Oresteia, a trilogy of plays by Aeschylus
23:12:02 [Ares] Yes, I have told my sections to be finished with the Od. by this week and begin Agamemnon and Iphigeneia
23:12:07 [delldude] why pigs?
23:12:09 [Thetis] delldude, it's a play by Aeschylus
23:12:22 [dl84] I thought the pigs symbolized how they would eat the cows of helios
23:12:33 [dl84] like the pigs symbolized their greed on the island
23:13:15 [Kleonai1] Interesting! We use pigs to symbolize greed; did the Greeks?
23:13:49 [dl84] interesting question
23:13:56 [dl84] but they were definately subordinate
23:14:03 [Ares] What about the other animals on Circe's island, were all the people charmed by her "pigs?"
23:14:06 [tien] did circe only turn men or anyone into pigs
23:14:10 [dl84] otherwise, she would have turned them into a more viscious animal
23:14:46 [dl84] i thought circe turned men into pigs, and then specifically odysseus's men into pigs
23:14:49 [Kleonai1] Tien - good question. The whole thing won't work with women
23:14:55 [Thetis] tien, why would anyone but men come to her island?
23:15:02 [dl84] wait, men into animals, and then odysseus's men into pigs
23:15:02 [tien] but how come just men
23:15:23 [tien] true
23:15:31 [Kleonai1] What is the whole episode on Circe's island about, anyone?
23:15:39 [Ares] Tien, were there any women with Od?
23:16:21 [tien] no, but the way that circe is described it made her seem like a man hater
23:16:35 [Thetis] andm tien, as we read more, keep in mind what kind of women actually do go out on adventures...
23:17:23 [Thetis] well, if you were a woman all by yuourself, and strange men came to your house, what would you do?
23:17:57 [dl84] man hater may be a little strong tien
23:18:05 [tien] but if I was a godess, I'd be a bit more powerful to begin with
23:18:40 [Kleonai1] Why does Odysseus leave Circe, tien?
23:18:45 [AnthonyB] Odysseus and men ended up spending a year there - would they have done that with a man-hater?...
23:19:00 [Thetis] in what ways, specifically, does Circe violate the code of hospitality?
23:19:17 [dl84] instead of offering them food and rest,
23:19:26 [dl84] she offers them food and poison
23:19:42 [tien] no, I think you're misunderstanding me I know she allows him to leave and even swears on it
23:20:00 [Kleonai1] and turns them into food!
23:20:17 [AnthonyB] why does Od. become Circe's lover? and why does Circe want to seduce him?
23:20:35 [Kleonai1] Tien - no, I meant that O doesn't leave C until his men remind him that they have to go - he is pretty powerful at seduction in my book
23:20:50 [Kleonai1] oops - I meant she
23:21:21 [AnthonyB] but maybe you're right about the 'he' too, Jeannie??
23:21:28 [tien] is there a history behind why she lives on this island?
23:21:38 [Kleonai1] oh, they're all so seductive!
23:21:46 [NChild] Doesn't Odysseus become her lover because Hermes tells him not to deny her?
23:22:27 [Kleonai1] NChild - what else specifically does H tell O to do?
23:22:46 [Thetis] tien: could Circe survive in normal society?
23:23:26 [NChild] He tells him to draw his sword as though to "run her through", and then to bed with her if he wants his men released
23:23:43 [NChild] And of course to have Circe swear an oath not to harm him
23:23:59 [Kleonai1] Yes! The sword symbolism hasn't changed much over the ages
23:24:56 [Kleonai1] ...so I guess "he" is seductive, too
23:25:21 [AnthonyB] Jeannie asked earlier, why does O leave C...
23:26:12 [NChild] Well, I think part of it is that it is Odysseus' fate to return home
23:27:00 [Thetis] Yeah, why does he? he's so eager to get away from kalypso, but he basically forgets about Ithaca when he's with C.
23:27:36 [Ares] Who reminds him of home?
23:27:51 [Kleonai1] Thetis, Circe's got more countermoves than K
23:27:54 [NChild] Perhaps its also to do with the magic of Circe. It seems she is more powerful than Calypso
23:27:55 [AnthonyB] Anyone here like to own up (or be the devil's advocate for it) that they *would* have stayed with Circe, or Calypso, or Nausicaa?
23:28:08 [NChild] His comrades remind his it is time to return homw
23:28:08 [lorca] of course
23:28:46 [crumb] how come odysseus doesnt get punished for killing all the suitors?
23:28:50 [Kleonai1] I'd have brought them all back to Ithaka with me
23:29:00 [wilson_bp] Athena interferes
23:29:03 [lorca] the more the merrier
23:29:08 [tien] He claims that his crew hinders his journey but they seem to help him in this case
23:29:20 [Thetis] Jeannie: Circe has more brains to go with her beauty?
23:29:24 [AnthonyB] lorca? [you commented 'of course' - did that mean you would have stayed?]
23:29:45 [NChild] I probably would have, especially after 20 years
23:29:52 [tien] Maybe because the suitors violated the code of hospitality first?
23:30:09 [lorca] i honestly would not have stayed, but i can understand given the circumstances why someone would
23:30:11 [wilson_bp] But Odysseus wouldn't have had to meet Circe if not for his crew
23:30:15 [Kleonai1] Thetis: perhaps just more "wiles"
23:30:19 [Thetis] if I were oO I would have stayed with Nausikaa
23:30:38 [NChild] But at the same time, Orestes kills Aegithus and Clytemnestra for killing Agamemnon, and he has to go to trial to determine if he was right
23:30:45 [Heptamtimi] Hello
23:30:48 [AnthonyB] Go on, Rebecca - run with it....
23:30:52 [NChild] So why shouldnt Odysseus have to face the same consequences?
23:30:55 [Heptamtimi] the email reminder was a big help
23:31:02 [Ares] I'm staying outta this one...
23:31:27 [Kleonai1] Thetis - but isn't N just P younger?
23:31:28 [AnthonyB] Hi, Heptamtimi! Glad you came!
23:31:50 [Heptamtimi] (we are discussing social penalties for murder among the Greeks in Odysseus' period?)
23:32:13 [Heptamtimi] (Pepis Hepteptamtiminopipolous)
23:32:18 [Thetis] Nausikaa is the closest thing he's had to home sicne he left Ithaka; i would have taken it and said, well, it's not quite there, but it's close enough, and I can be happy here."
23:32:24 [AnthonyB] ....and desert islands....
23:32:32 [NChild] Well crumb asked why Odysseus didnt get punished for killing the suitors
23:32:33 [AnthonyB] Castaway
23:32:35 [tien] O is more favored I guess
23:32:41 [wilson_bp] Orestes kieed his mother, and matricide is a serious offence?
23:32:44 [Thetis] Jeannie: well, yes, that's really hte point. He can have almost everything he had before.
23:33:04 [crumb] "more favored"... thats terrible
23:33:11 [Kleonai1] Thetis - after I'd kissed off Kalypso, I think I'd be all or nothing
23:33:22 [crumb] more and more i learn about oddysseus.. the more i dislike him
23:33:32 [Heptamtimi] what is the deal with INO? I did not see her as a real big feminine factor in dysseus' life.
23:33:36 [crumb] before i read the book he seemed like such a great hero and legend
23:33:42 [Ginevra] it seems as though they have civil goverment, hte families of the men Odysseus killed were going to take justice into thier own hands until Athena settled it
23:33:43 [tien] well, Zues and Anthene had his back
23:33:51 [crumb] i didnt thing INO was that important either
23:34:05 [tien] plus throughout all the voyages he becomes a really well known
23:34:07 [NChild] Well, I think its hard not to judge him by our value system, but we have to remember that the Greeks had a completely different value system
23:34:13 [lorca] it was a bloody cycle of retributory acts, someone had to end it
23:34:16 [Kel] i know what you mean crumb...
23:34:21 [Heptamtimi] she would have been just as good a "male" river god,
23:34:26 [crumb] it doesnt make sense that homer would make zeus and anthena would be ok with his mass murder
23:34:27 [Brigit] Well without Ino what would have happened to Od?
23:34:37 [crumb] when he mentions agamennon's death somany times
23:34:46 [Heptamtimi] exceptfor her reputation as a protector as is Athena, for young warriors
23:35:13 [wilson_bp] I guess the guests deserved to die?
23:35:20 [Heptamtimi] He would have had worse odds to contend with
23:35:32 [Ares] RE Od/Orestes is this really a fair parallel to draw. Are the victims of murder really socially equivalent?
23:35:38 [crumb] well... without everyone else Od meets... wat would have happened to Od?
23:35:41 [Thetis] Nicole: but wait until we get to "Trojan Women" and other plays of Euripides: he doesn't always have fans.
23:35:50 [ajsthind] this is interesting how we talk about murder in retribution as being so horrid, yet we still have that same value
23:35:52 [Ginevra] What's up with the afterlife, it seems pretty horrible, not at all like our notion of Heaven
23:35:54 [Heptamtimi] btw, the clothes Calypso gave him were just as immortal as INO's scarf
23:36:17 [Ares] Is there something that Klytemnestra is that the suitors are not?
23:36:24 [Heptamtimi] so INO wasn't too necessary
23:36:36 [Heptamtimi] trechery
23:36:43 [lorca] Definitely, the notion of the underworld very gruesome so much that Achilles laments ruling the dead
23:36:56 [Ares] Socially, speaking.
23:37:03 [crumb] well... i think INO is just as important as any other character... but it seems in leacture she seems sooooo much more impoirtant
23:37:13 [Heptamtimi] the suitors were a cultural force and Klytamnestra was trechery from a loved and trustedone
23:37:15 [NChild] Well, from my stand point, Clytemnestra was only avenging the slaughter of her first born child
23:37:19 [dl84] the underworld didn't seem so bad
23:37:26 [lorca] well i think it's because many times she's underestimated
23:37:29 [Ginevra] Yeah it seems as if some of them had cruel and unusual punishment
23:37:37 [wilson_bp] but her first born child didn't die
23:37:38 [dl84] and to the greeks, heaven was more reserved for the gods
23:37:49 [AnthonyB] Ares, she's more effective??? (Too much drinking among the suitors for them to be much good wielding an axe...)
23:37:54 [Heptamtimi] the underworld parallels valhella
23:37:57 [NChild] How would u feel if your spouse killed your daughter and then came home ten years later with a concubine that he declares is more fair than his own wife?
23:38:00 [Kel] no, weren't the suitors treacherous by plotting to kill telemachos heptamtimi?
23:38:11 [Ginevra] So even if you were a great warrior, the life now was all you had
23:38:14 [Brigit] Not so much more important but, keep in mind what the reference to Ino would have meant to the listeners.
23:38:24 [Heptamtimi] with a touch of immortal suffering for those helpless who have done wrong to the gods
23:38:40 [Thetis] Nicole: it was hardly unexpected that A. would come home with multiple women and children.
23:38:47 [AnthonyB] and did you know that Ag killed Clytemnestra's first husband and child....?
23:39:12 [Heptamtimi] ah, a suppliment to the constant mentioning of Athene
23:39:13 [Ares] More basic. I'm talking about realtions between charaters, e.g. family, vs. xenos in this case?
23:39:26 [Heptamtimi] and a whole story to herself
23:40:01 [AnthonyB] (worth checking out the 'wooing' of Clytemnestra.... compare the wooing of Helen.... the wooing of Nausicaa...[even]..
23:40:04 [Ares] Anthony, I thought that Aesh. was the first, as far as we know, to make Ag. kill Iph.?
23:40:24 [wilson_bp] would it be wrong to say that most of the main characters have a lineage which can be traced somehow to a god?
23:40:39 [AnthonyB] (and, of course, the wooing of Helen, and of Penelope)
23:41:10 [Ginevra] no, Wilson, that seems to be right, probably why thier story is being told
23:41:13 [Kleonai1] so shall we add the wooing of Circe?
23:41:36 [Thetis] wilson_bp: keep in mind that we're in the age of heroes, when men and gods talk to each other on a regular basis. but you're correct in noticing that an awful lot of them are divinely descended.
23:41:55 [NChild] prof bulloch, where might those references be located?
23:42:05 [Heptamtimi] seed of such and such divinity
23:42:24 [Kleonai1] NChild - use your Robert Graves
23:42:36 [NChild] thanks
23:43:00 [AnthonyB] Matt, the sacrifice of Iph is already in the Kypria, so it was clearly part of the oral epic tradition - just not in Homer. And Hesiod had it too, in the Ehoaiai...
23:43:25 [Ares] Thanks...
23:44:15 [Ginevra] I was thinking about how Prof. Bulloch was saying that Odysseus manages to sleep with every woman he meets, I think it's considered o.k. because the act of lovemaking is separate from actual love in this instance. at the end we see how much he really loves his wife and how those other women meant
23:44:19 [Kleonai1] Any good stories about Agamemnon out there?
23:44:19 [base1man] can you tell me why they call odysseus the seed of zeus?
23:44:25 [Ginevra] nothibng to him
23:44:52 [Thetis] Ginevra: does he really sleep with every woman he meets?
23:45:15 [Cluelezzz1] not the princess of the Phaikans
23:45:32 [Kleonai1] Or does he only meet women he needs to sleep with?
23:45:35 [Ginevra] Well he doesn't sleep with the Princess
23:45:37 [Thetis] moreover, he is genulinely attracted to Cirtce, and forgets, supposedly, all about home and Penelope.
23:45:46 [NChild] Wow. I knew about Thyestes and Atreus, but I wasn't aware the role Clytemnestra played
23:45:46 [Ares] All kings are the seed of Zeus, ideologically speaking...They derive their legitimacy from him.
23:46:13 [base1man] ok thanks
23:46:24 [Ginevra] really, he does forget about home, do you say that because he stayed there so long?
23:46:55 [Ares] In the Iliad, the sceptre Ag. wields was given to A's ancestors by Zeus (I think)
23:47:03 [Thetis] Ginevra: what compels him to leave Circe?
23:47:05 [crumb] ginevra: didn't his friend remind him to go hom?
23:47:23 [Thetis] matt: yopu're right.
23:47:30 [Kleonai1] Ares - yup - there's a long description of it being handed down
23:48:11 [Thetis] Ginevra: yes--he has to be reminded by his crew. what does that say, then?
23:48:12 [Ginevra] gosh, good questions, i hae to find that passage and read it over
23:48:22 [AnthonyB] [Milan Kundera - whom I've been reading recently (sorry to repeat myself, guys) points out that Od spent more time with Calypso (7 years) than he had probably had with Penelope....
23:49:15 [Kleonai1] But is it the woman or what she represents that's important?
23:49:26 [lorca] the representation
23:49:36 [AnthonyB] Matt's right - that sceptre was important: it was even preserved (the real thing) in a town called Coroneia (I think) and received carfeful ritual attention every day - a Real Relic!
23:50:19 [Thetis] personally, I'd love to read book 25 of the Odyssey: O and P after the reunion. Was home life really what he remembered, or was it more desireable because he didn't have it?
23:50:22 [Ares] Yes, I think it was called 'doru' - 'spear'
23:50:23 [Kleonai1] Why Coroneia?
23:50:56 [wilson_bp] perhaps it was more desirable because of the obstacles which he had to face on his voyage back?
23:51:06 [e_berger] Is there no taboo of incest in ancient greece?
23:51:20 [Kleonai1] Of course there is!
23:51:38 [Ares] Did one of the Epigoni have it?
23:51:41 [AnthonyB] I've often wondered that too, Jeannie. these things travel.... (there's a notorious relic in Italy I'll tell you about sometime)
23:51:46 [Thetis] but wouldn't home be ,well, boring after all that?
23:51:53 [Anna] Is Laertes Odysseus' real father?
23:52:06 [Kleonai1] Well, he did leave again soon, didn't he?
23:52:40 [AnthonyB] Yes, I think Matt's right - though as I recall, interestingly enough we're not actually told the descent of the sceptre after it gets to Ag
23:52:41 [e_berger] hera is zeus's sister, and Aiolos's married his six daughters with his six sisters
23:52:43 [Ares] Anna, Why do you ask?
23:52:52 [e_berger] sons
23:53:45 [Kleonai1] Anna - isn't it curious that Laertes is the last to know of O's return, and then he's off in squalor somewhere?
23:53:49 [AnthonyB] good question, Anna. there's a rumor that his mother may have been seduced by another relative, out of revenge...
23:53:58 [Thetis] e_berger: there is ahuge taboo on incest among humans in Greece, both mythically and really.
23:54:40 [Ares] Yes, I've honestly wondered about that myself. Perhapd one of my more enlightened colleagues could enlighten us...?
23:54:49 [Thetis] but think about the pairings between the gods more in terms of what they represent, than along any lines of blood/ichor/whatever
23:54:58 [Anna] In Robert Graves I thought he mentions that Laertes might not be O's father?
23:55:17 [Kel] is there a certain reason the suitors want penelope other than because she's beautiful? the kingship doesnt go through the matrilinear line, right?
23:55:35 [Kleonai1] Anna - remember that there are always versions, and back stories...
23:55:43 [AnthonyB] (not many options available, also, in the early stages of generation)
23:56:09 [Ares] sorry to leave, but I must "put my hand to the good things" on my table...
23:56:35 [Thetis] bon appetit, matt
23:56:36 [Kleonai1] Bye Matt
23:57:04 [AnthonyB] Kel, it's murky - I think the suitors probably reckoned that a good combination of 'force' and alliances on the male side might be able to make it if paired with Penelope's authority
23:57:15 [AnthonyB] thanks for coming, Matt
23:58:13 [AnthonyB] we're used to Succession being very well thought through, here in the US, or in other European countries - but in many societies it's not at all clear-cut
23:58:33 [lorca] that's true, peaceful transitions of power too
23:59:22 [wilson_bp] Are there examples of a hero who's ancestors aren't anyone important?
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00:00:03 [AnthonyB] think of China, Russia, for example - great countries with a very venerable past, but the institutions of succession quite muddy
00:00:04 [Kleonai1] Wlison - yes
00:01:30 [Thetis] what are they, Jeannie?
00:01:33 [Kleonai1] Some characters became heroes simply because something bad happened to them and they came to a bad end
00:01:38 [Kel] yeah thats true
00:01:46 [Thetis] I keep on drawing blanks...
00:02:01 [AnthonyB] Anna - going back to your question about Od.' father: you might find it interesting to research the details there
00:02:03 [Kleonai1] Thetis - what about the baby Opheltes? In some versions, his father is just the local priest
00:02:38 [Kleonai1] ...when the 7 Against Thebes kill him by mistake, they think this is a bad omen, so start a ritual in his honor
00:02:41 [Kel] uh, this is unrelated to classics, but is this chat slow on other people's computers or is it just me?
00:03:19 [wilson_bp] I meant heroes as in go out and do heroic stuff...
00:03:42 [Anna] Any suggestions where to start?
00:03:44 [AnthonyB] kel it varies - chatrooms are very memory intensive
00:03:47 [Kleonai1] Wilson - it all depends on what you think the definition of a hero is
00:04:01 [Thetis] wilson: define "heroic"
00:04:13 [wilson_bp] I guess I'm thinking about inherited characteristics
00:04:26 [Kel] i think it also doesn't help that i have dial up, too...
00:04:27 [Thetis] Kleonai1> great minds....
00:04:35 [Kleonai1] The strict definition of a hero to the Greeks was either someone who lived in the heroic age, or someone who received cult after death. Doesn't mean you had to do anything heroic.
00:05:00 [AnthonyB] Wilson, don't forget that many heroes are 'local': i.e. they may not be renowned at the national level, but within their region they are major founding figures - and that can make a hero just as much as Great Deeds
00:05:01 [Kleonai1] There is even one who all he did in life was kill a bunch of kids
00:05:48 [wilson_bp] I suppose my definition of a hero are those who went out on a great quest.
00:05:50 [Thetis] don't forget about heroines, too, especially those that get a cult because they jump off a cliff...
00:06:06 [AnthonyB] and some just float around in boxes and get washed up somewhere
00:06:29 [Thetis] wilson: questing is an important part of ancient greek heroism, but not the only criterion
00:06:34 [lorca] I think it's party the Odyssey's legacy that we have that concrete impression of "hero"
00:06:37 [Kleonai1] EVen I could do that!
00:06:44 [lorca] *partly
00:07:11 [wilson_bp] I guess I'm thinking that Odysseus was a great Greek because of his cunning.
00:07:11 [Thetis] Jeannie: the jumping, pr the being washed up in boxes?!
00:07:43 [wilson_bp] but his cunning is "inherited" from his great grandfather, Herme
00:07:51 [Kleonai1] Thetis - I was thinking of being washed up in boxes, but sometimes the jumping off a cliff doesn't look too bad, either
00:07:58 [Thetis] wilson: is it?
00:08:14 [AnthonyB] yeah - I could just about manage the box, but not leaping from great cliff-heights
00:08:50 [AnthonyB] I think Jeannie would make a much better hero than I would
00:09:01 [Thetis] the claustrophobic one sez: gimme a cliff!
00:09:21 [Kleonai1] Ah, that's why cliff-jumping is more the province of women
00:09:57 [Thetis] ...lovers of pathos as we are...
00:10:07 [Kleonai1] Anthony - fortunately the Greeks had so many different kinds of heroes
00:10:58 [Thetis] maybe we should take a poll at the end of the class to see who the favorites are
00:11:03 [AnthonyB] now there's an interesting thought: why is it that it's almost always women who are placed at great heights, whether it's on the tips of promontories, or acropoleis, or isolated at the top of towers?
00:11:13 [Kleonai1] ...we could all qualify under some category or another!
00:11:51 [AnthonyB] maybe we should do a weekly 'Hermes Poll' and see how popularity varies over the term....
00:12:09 [Thetis] Anthony: that *is* a good question. Isolating the varialbe, dangerous sex?
00:12:11 [Kleonai1] Well, there are some exceptions - Theseus' father jumps
00:12:36 [lorca] yeah especially before and after reading Medea
00:12:44 [AnthonyB] and - running in the family - Hippolytus is forced to go that way
00:12:52 [Kleonai1] "Put her on a pedestal and she will fall"
00:13:16 [Thetis] lorca:
00:13:17 [AnthonyB] got to contain those women - keep Pandora in her box....
00:13:33 [AnthonyB] then there's Myrsilus
00:14:03 [Thetis] but he was pushed
00:14:03 [Kleonai1] But doesn't he get thrown?
00:14:19 [AnthonyB] It usually turns out they are mothers of Famous Sons, of course
00:14:37 [AnthonyB] details, details....
00:15:04 [Thetis] which is why they're dangerous
00:15:11 [AnthonyB] some volunteer, others are chosen
00:15:12 [Kleonai1] aren't there a number of virgin jumpers?
00:15:37 [AnthonyB] virgin jumpers are usually three, aren't they?
00:16:00 [Kleonai1] Speaking of which, Anthony - are you going to do the Arrephoria this year?
00:16:08 [Kleonai1] oops - wrong spelling
00:16:18 [AnthonyB] now that's where the Od. had some counter-cultural originality: Od.' women were all dangerous in themselves
00:17:12 [AnthonyB] Yes - in a couple of weeks, with Athena (after Ares) as a link with Community
00:17:16 [Thetis] not all of them: Nausikaa?
00:17:39 [Kleonai1] Thetis - she is the most dangerous - she tempted even you!
00:18:08 [AnthonyB] Sorry, everyone - we've rather been rattling on. Sorry if it sounds like code. The Arrhephoria is basically about kinky sex
00:18:32 [Kleonai1] that's probably why they are a favorite of mine
00:18:45 [Kel] haha
00:18:45 [Thetis] Anthony: 
<guffaw>
00:18:59 [AnthonyB] worth waiting for
00:19:35 [delldude] whoa kinky sex?? wth??
00:19:41 [Thetis] Jeannie: you're right!
00:19:51 [Thetis] (about N.)
00:19:55 [Kleonai1] delldude - have you been out there all this time?
00:19:59 [lorca] is that where athena wiped semen off of herself?
00:20:12 [delldude] fd
00:20:14 [AnthonyB] warm
00:20:16 [delldude] yeah im here
00:20:18 [Thetis] you'll just have to pay attnetion very closely for the next two weeks, delldude!
00:20:35 [delldude] for what?
00:21:36 [delldude] what are you talking about thetic
00:21:38 [delldude] thetis
00:21:59 [Kleonai1] My goodness, it is getting late (I can usually tell when the chat turns to kinky sex) - I'll have to go soon
00:22:08 [AnthonyB] OK - time to go and try to invent something for tomorrow....
00:22:42 [AnthonyB] this chatroom will stay open 24/7, though
00:23:03 [AnthonyB] Thanks for coming, everyone. See you all tomorrow!
00:23:16 [Kleonai1] Bye Anthony!
00:23:17 [AnthonyB] Stay on as long as you want.
00:23:28 [delldude] see ya tony....peace out
00:23:43 [Kleonai1] Thetis - will you be safe left here alone?
00:23:47 [Kel] bye
00:24:13 [lorca] uale!
00:24:45 [Kleonai1] Well, good night everyone!
00:24:49 [delldude] so hows the class goin for everyone so far
00:24:57 [delldude] everyone keeping up with the reading?
00:25:32 [Kel] trying to! i have a lot for american studies too...
00:25:50 [delldude] do you find the reading enjoyable or a bit bland?
00:26:45 [Kel] this class' reading is cool...reading for some other classes arent quite so fun...
00:27:06 [Kel] what about u
00:27:17 [delldude] alright kel, we should get together to study sometime
00:27:21 [delldude] whaddaya say
00:27:55 [Kel] haha if you wanna
00:28:10 [Kel] wat other classes are u taking?
00:28:16 [delldude] no, i'm serious....i'm kinda lost
00:28:49 [delldude] a probability class
00:29:10 [delldude] Kel> hey you on AIM?
00:29:45 [Kel] yup
00:29:55 [delldude] sn?
00:30:12 [Kel] sn is emprspanny
00:32:14 [Kel] it would actually be a lot faster for me to talk on AIM because this chat is really slow for me...